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Welcome to the Necessary Conversation, midweek edition. I'm Chad Kultgen, with me is my mom. We are going to show each other clips today and try to illuminate the other person about their side of whatever the issue may be. I have three clips prepared for you today, Mom. One is about the treatment of children in ICE detention facilities. One is about a very specific Epstein file that is highly graphic. And one is about Donald Trump saying we need to move on from the Epstein files and stop talking about them. What have you prepared for me? You know, I sent you two or maybe three clips. The one about is Epstein really in Israel walking around? Is he still alive? Uh-huh. The clip about Michael Jackson. Uh the clip about uh Hillary Clinton kind of being crazy and bizarre. And then um there was another thing I wanted to talk to you about. What was it? Oh, Iran. Have you been on TV lately this afternoon? I have not, but I just Googled it a little bit and it does look like Trump is trying to start a war. This is the guy who wants a Nobel Peace Prize. What's he doing? I know. Okay, are you in support of that? Power power through peace, peace through power. No, I don't want him to start a war in Iran. I do not. I've said that before on the podcast. I don't want this to happen. No, no, no, no. >> And so what if he does? It's going to be terrible. Right, but will you still support him? He's our president. I have to. No, you didn't support Joe Biden you didn't You know why? We have military people over there and I support them, too. >> You didn't support Joe Biden when he was your president, did you? I did not support him, but I had to support things that he would partake in military-wise because of our um people that are in the military. >> Such as? Whatever he did. What did he do? He opened the borders. I did not support that because that was hurting all kinds of people here. >> So, what I'm trying to get at here is this is going to be one more thing that Trump is doing that you disagree with. And that list of things now is getting pretty long. How many things does he have to do that you disagree with before you say, "I disagree with him." I disagree with things he is doing right now. Right, but you still blindly follow him. He is the president of the United States. We just did this whole circular argument. So is Joe Biden. You didn't support him. You didn't support anything Barack Obama did. The things Trump is doing are a little bit um I guess better to me to try to make our country stronger and greater. The things Biden did was open up borders to make us more weak. Okay. And starting a war with Iran, you believe is is to make us stronger. I don't think it is. I don't I don't like it. I don't like it. That's what I'm saying. So, at what point how many of these things have to pile up that you don't like? He does a lot of other things that I do like, so. >> Um well, let's get to those things, I suppose. Do you want to start with one of your clips, or you want me to start? I'm sure my clips won't be as bad as yours, so start with the good, my clips. You want to start with what? Michael Jackson, uh or do you want to start with Epstein alive in Tel Aviv? Epstein, I like that one. Here we go. A single image from Tel Aviv has reignited one of the internet's darkest debates. Who is this guy spotted in? The image shows a white-haired, white-bearded man wearing sunglasses walking with two men who appear to be bodyguards. The photo was taken in Tel Aviv. The man's face looks familiar, but no name is confirmed. Online speculation quickly followed. As renewed attention is placed on the Epstein files, some users claim the man resembles Jeffrey Epstein and argue he may still be alive. Screenshots are zoomed in, facial features compared, and timelines re-examined. Others push back saying the image proves nothing and warning against turning resemblance into accusation. The debate goes beyond the photo itself. Some commenters argue that for someone with Epstein's wealth and connections, faking a death would be easier than facing accountability. Others point out that there has been no verified evidence placing him alive after his death in custody and that speculation risks distracting from documented crimes and victims. What remains undeniable is the imbalance the discussion exposes. If Epstein is truly dead, many believe justice was never fully served. Okay. And so you're Do you believe Epstein is alive and in Israel? >> No. No. I've seen that circulating all over. I wanted to ask you what's your opinion on that. Do you think he's alive? Do you think he's dead? I think he's dead. So do you think that's AI-generated and that's not him? I think maybe it's a guy who looks like him. Some of those pictures may be AI. I'm not sure. Let me Well, try and Google it quickly. Yeah, you know, I I'm pretty sure he's dead. But I don't think he committed suicide the way that the documents were written up that he killed himself by strangulation or Yeah. I don't think he killed himself. I don't think he did. I think he was killed by probably That that image, that video that you're showing, has been proven to be AI-generated. Okay. Okay. By multiple outlets. >> I've seen a whole bunch of them and at first I was saying maybe he is alive. Maybe he is over there walking around. No, I think he's dead, but um when they did find him in the cell and all that, there were a lot of errors that went on that day. The guards were supposed to be watching what every 30 minutes. They didn't. >> Yeah. I don't I don't think he killed himself. I definitely think he was murdered. But I don't think he's alive. Yeah, I don't think he is, either. I just wanted to show that to you. I've seen it so many times. At first, I kind of believed it. But then you you have always told me look a little bit further. All you have to do is Google any of these things. Like you see that video of him, I literally just Googled uh video of Epstein walking around Tel Aviv, is it real? And immediately there's like 20 websites that are like, "No, this is AI-generated." But there's so many people that pick that up then, and the crazy people pick it up and say, "Look, he is. Look at this." >> You you did that. You had me play that clip. You are one of the crazy people. No, I'm not. I wanted to know if you were one of the crazy people. [laughter] You were >> You were trying to trick me with it? I was trying to trick you. Okay. So, that's clip one, I guess. Yeah, I think he's still alive. >> me with an AI Epstein clip. Do you think he committed suicide? No, I said. I think he was murdered. >> Yeah, I don't, either. The the amount of people now that are having to like quit their jobs and under investigation all these different countries and stuff, it's like it's And and also, the fact that we still don't have half of the Epstein files. They're never going to release them. They have to. >> Maybe they'll get released if a Democrat gets in office and and can completely clean house in the DOJ and all this stuff, but they're protecting Trump. Who do you think killed him, then? I I mean, dare I say it? I think Trump is involved. Wow. Yeah, I don't, but >> There are still, even in the quote unredacted files that Congress got to see, there's still multiple people's names fully redacted, multiple images fully redacted. We know for a fact there are multiple images of Trump redacted in the [ __ ] they released. So, what's in the [ __ ] they didn't release? I thought when the people went in there that day or two days, they could see anything they wanted. They couldn't take pictures. They could read everything. >> Yes. And then they came out of that and said there's a bunch of [ __ ] still in the files we're looking at that's blacked out. Yeah. So, the stuff the DOJ gave them wasn't even unredacted. They are protecting people at the very top of this. And I believe whoever those names are, whoever's in those 3 million other pages, very likely Donald Trump is in a lot of them just based on the fact that he's in the ones they did release more than any other person. I I did go back and watch uh the day that Bondy was testifying and all that. And that part where she goes, I don't know, she was talking about something and then she goes to the stock market. Yeah. >> What? Yeah. She was talking about how the the Dow was up or something or Nasdaq. I'm like, what? >> And she's being asked questions, why aren't you prosecuting people in the Epstein files? And she's like, the stock market's up. She is protecting Donald Trump. I I don't know how you don't see that. I don't think it's Donald Trump. She's protecting all the files, all the people that are in there. I don't think it's Donald Trump. I really don't. Well, I have clips uh that contradict your statement. Do you want to go to those or do you want Let's Let's do all your clips then we'll get to mine. Yeah, mine are like easy, no big deal, funny ones. Yours are going to be not, I'm sure. >> That's correct cuz I'm trying to get you to see what's going on here. Huh? >> No, Michael Jackson is kind of this is a good one. All right, here's Michael Jackson. So, Michael Jackson used his life to protect children, yet was misunderstood by the world as a criminal. Neverland, this mysterious place, was not as simple as the outside world thought. Recently, a previously undisclosed truth was revealed. In Neverland, Michael Jackson shielded children from the forces of darkness, keeping them away from the terrifying reality of Epstein's Island. He provided children with a sanctuary, protecting them from harm and abuse, yet was misrepresented by the media and the public as a criminal. He was falsely accused of abuse while the real abusers remained undisclosed. Macaulay Culkin and other celebrities publicly defended Jackson, proving that he was not only a musical genius, but also a hero who fought for the safety and protection of children. I believe that 100%. When all of that came out that he was the bad person with children, I I was like, "No way. No way." I totally think that he was helping the children stay away from the pedos. I really do. But didn't he like Did you see uh it was I always fell his name up. Y'all are going to laugh, you know, Macaulay Culkin? Is that how I say it? >> Yeah. He has come out and said Michael Jackson saved me from getting on that airplane. Uh-huh. That's what he said. Okay, but that's a famous kid. Also, Michael Jackson settled a civil lawsuit with the family of 13-year-old Jordan Chandler in January 1994 for $23 million to prevent further disruption to his career. Like He He paid a family $23 million when this kid was like Because they were they were doing lies against him, trying to make it sound like Michael Jackson was the bad guy when in fact Yeah. it's all those pedos on that island. Okay. I mean That he would he would have children over and try to save them. And have sleepovers [clears throat] with them. Did you ever see that documentary where the two kids claimed that they were sexually abused by him? No. That are adults now and they get very graphic in detail about what he was doing. No. I just I want to believe what I just showed you. I understand. As do I. I love Michael Jackson's music. He was He was the most famous person in the world. He was doing incredible art. I agree with all of that. However, this idea that you have that you want to believe something, so therefore it must be true, that's not right. But then and then I saw another >> that way of thinking is why you're in the Trump cult as well. I saw another clip where he said, "If I die, you know, I don't I don't want to die, but if I would die, it's not the government that killed me. He said it's someone else." Michael Jackson said this? Yes, I saw it on Instagram. All right. Um do you want to watch your final clip of Hillary Clinton here? Yes, I guess. You know, I didn't bring much to the table. We have no links. We have a very clear record that we've been willing to talk about, which my husband has said he took some uh rides on the airplane for his charitable work. I don't recall ever meeting him. Uh Did you ever meet Ghislaine Maxwell? I did on a few occasions, and thousands of people go to the Clinton Global Initiative. So, it to me is not is not something that is really at the heart of what this matter is about. They are accused, and in both cases were convicted of horrific crimes against girls and women. That should be the focus. We are more than happy to say what we know, which is very limited and totally unrelated to their uh behavior or their crimes. And we want to do it in public because let's make this transparent. There are calls for another individual who denies wrongdoing to go before uh Congress on this matter. Uh Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, formerly Prince Andrew. Do you think he should testify? >> I think everybody should testify. Including the former prince? I think everybody should testify who is asked to testify. I just want it to be fair. I want everybody treated the same way. That's not true for my husband and me because other witnesses were asked to testify, they gave written statements under oath. We offered that. They want to pull us. Why do they want to pull us into this? To divert attention from President Trump. This is not complicated. Okay. >> No, it's not complicated. Because the Clintons invited him to the White House only 17 times. Okay. Yeah, uh because >> I don't like the media. >> Because Maxwell when she asked her, "Do you know her?" "Oh, I've met her on occasion. She was at the daughter's wedding. She was at Chelsea's wedding. There's a photograph where you can see Maxwell leaning out watching the bride walk down the aisle. She was on the guest list." >> Okay, that's fine. So, you're saying there are pictures of them together and they were at events together. But Hillary right there said "I maybe met her." Yeah, she's met her a lot. Came to the White House 17 times. And? With her and Clinton. Donald Trump has hung out with Jeffrey Epstein. Literally Jeffrey Epstein, not Ghislaine Maxwell. >> to the White House 17 times? I don't think so. I don't have that in my notes. No. No, because it's a different time. He was in jail by the time Trump was president. >> That clip to me was just hilarious. How she's trying to spin it off like, "My husband went on uh the >> to testify. >> charitable trips." Yeah, very charitable. I'm not saying they are are without blame here, certainly. But at the very least, they're saying we will testify. Do it in public. We want America to see every word we say. Which will be lies, but that's okay. >> Okay, fine. Donald Trump won't even testify. Hello? Yes. That clip you played basically makes her look good in my opinion. >> asked him to testify yet? No. Why won't he? Why isn't he offering it? Why aren't they asking him? He His name appears in the Epstein files more than anyone else. Why aren't they asking him to testify? We have talked about why his name is in there so many times. And you know why Barack Obama's name is not in there? I figured this one out. A lot of people have figured this one out. Do you know why? >> Because he doesn't know Jeffrey Epstein and was never on his island. No, because Kathy, I think you pronounce her name Rumor, Okay. >> is in there uh 8,400 documents, 150 emails. Who was she? Who was she? She was the former White House counsel counsel to Barack Hussein Obama. Okay. >> She was top lawyer. After she left him, she went to uh Goldman's Goldman Sachs until she resigned last week. She resigned on the 18th. Her departure from that investment firm will be in June of 2026. Mhm. They accepted her resignation. She is in there so many times and there's so much pressure on her now. She had to resign. She was given luxury gifts, watches, handbags, thank you, lunch here, lunch there. Yeah. Okay. >> Kids that is associated with Obama. If you're going by association, Donald Trump has about 10 people in his immediate orbit that are all of the Epstein files. >> I do know that. >> Including Howard Lutnick who openly said, "I would never hang out with Jeffrey Epstein. He's a pile of human shit." And oops, you had lunch with him and your family multiple times. So, if you're saying guilt by association, Donald Trump is the guiltiest of any party imaginable. I'm not really I guess I might be saying guilt by association. >> They are. Yeah, but I'm saying too, she probably did emails in his behalf. Okay, and you don't think Trump has people doing that? Um, I'd like to see those emails. Okay. Chad, I like I said, I don't care if he's the president, I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat. If they did these things, lock him up and he's not my president anymore. Throw away the key with all of them. >> not understanding. Barack Obama's name is not in the Epstein files. So then you find somebody and you say Huh? >> It is It is in a few. I did Google that. Okay. >> They said by logs or something, not flight logs, but something. >> is what I'm saying. You're dismissing the idea that the number of mentions in the Epstein files has any meaning whatsoever. Right? Sometimes, depending on what the emails are saying. If they're saying the girls will be here in the hot tub, if they're saying the girls will be there, if they're saying you get this purse because you did something special for me, it depends on what the email says, kind of. So, again, volume of mentions is meaningless to you. Mm. I'm not sure. Since I had You know, you know I haven't read them all. You know that. There's no way I'm going to read all those files. Correct. That's what we have reporters for. Journalists are going through it all and finding the important ones and saying, "Oh, look, that's how we found out uh Lofgren lied." That's how we found that out. >> Right. So, of course, people have to find the ones that that are like smoking guns. I get it. >> Should >> the amount of times that a person appears in the Epstein files is meaningless. You don't care about that. I care about what's in the emails, I guess. I really do. >> So, the number of mentions is meaningless to you. Right? You're not going to trick me into saying I didn't >> you. I'm I'm trying to >> are. You're trying. >> When I say Donald Trump appears in the Epstein files more than anyone else and you say that doesn't matter, that can only mean that you don't care if a person's name is actually in the Epstein files. It's simply to you about the nature of the emails that might be surrounding their names or whatever. >> I tried to explain to you, too. I totally believe that in the very beginning he was the one that turned him in. He said, "Come get the creep. Get him out of Mar-a-Lago." He was the one that turned him in a long time ago. Okay, that's not true and there's been plenty of reporting to that end. In fact, Donald Trump lied about when he severed ties with Jeffrey Epstein and there are Epstein files that show that, that they were in some form of What's that? >> Well, there's a phone call that he placed to a I believe it was a uh sheriff in Florida in 2006 saying >> Brian We all know what Jeffrey Epstein is doing. >> that he knew he was a creep. Right. Yeah. But That's it, right? So, he knew about it then. He has claimed he cut ties with him later than that because he was quote stealing women from him. >> right? But the phone call shows that he knew about it way before that. And so, this kind of weird patchwork timeline that he's trying to put together to distance himself from the idea that he knew what Epstein was doing while he was doing it is a lie. That has been proven now. Yeah, I'm getting upset that they're not releasing them all. They need to get rid of Pam Bondi. I've told you that. >> Pam Bondi. She's taking orders from Trump. Those other 3 million files Mhm. I can virtually guarantee you have [ __ ] in them that will bury Trump. Let's see them all. >> files. It's not like they released them all and they're like, "Oh [ __ ] there's a couple of bad ones in here about Trump. Let's withhold those. They're withholding 3 million files. Why? >> think someone is sitting there reading through them and that's why they won't release them. Yes, that has been reported. They had to hire extra people at the FBI to redact Trump's name. That's their entire job. And and who reported that one? >> his name out, huh? Who reported that one? Okay, hang on. Let me get you the information. I will not stand behind him if he is a pedophile and did bad things to kids. I've told you this. I don't know how many times I have to say this to you. What? I don't know how many times I have to say this to you. That will make me if it's proven if like the cases that we keep talking about in the hotline that were so bad so bad. Yeah. One of those people needs to come forward, get an attorney, bring it in the open and let's get it on. No one will >> They have tried to do this. All of those women went to the FBI and the DOJ and the FBI and the DOJ will not even hear what they have to say. That's the whole point of this. That was That was in Pam Bondi's hearing. No, the FBI wants those people to come forward and they won't with names so that they can open the files. That's the only way that we're going to get to the bottom of it. By the way, this is everywhere. It's on ABC News, CNN, MSNBC, Bloomberg.com, Al Jazeera, Facebook, Instagram. Okay. It's everywhere. BBC um that they were redacting his name. They don't want that to happen. Cash Pat- That's why Cash Patel is taking Donald Trump's names and pictures out of the Epstein files. They will not launch an investigation, neither will the DOJ because Trump is telling them not to. That's the whole point of what Trump is doing. When he came into office, he fired the head of the FBI, he fired the head of the DOJ, and he replaced them with [ __ ] that are loyal to him and only him. So, he now tells them what to do, and they [ __ ] do it. They're not investigating anybody. There are now, at least last time I read, 13 investigations in other countries into people that are mentioned in the Epstein files. Guess how many there are in the United States? None. >> Zero. Well, Zero. Right. It was Epstein and then the the other guy that committed suicide before it could go to trial. How about the New York Times article I read that said it they admit zero evidence that Trump had anything to do with the Epstein abuse, trafficking of minors? How about that? How about the clip where there's a panel, and I think it was maybe NBC, Yeah. and they asked that panel of girls, "Did Trump have anything to do with the girls on the island?" And there's No. No. No. How about the 13-year-old girl that credibly accused Donald Trump of raping her, then got death threats, and was like, "Okay, I revoke my my statement?" >> read about that. That's one of the things I said I don't know. I hadn't read about it. And it said that she never came forward, and that >> got death threats from Trump. And the case was dismissed. I mean, there was no case because she wouldn't come forward. >> Correct. She withdrew it. Because she was getting death threats. Then how do we reopen that one? You don't. Don't you know what? Don't you think now would be a perfect time to do that? Not if you think you're going to be killed. He's the [ __ ] president now. You don't think he's more powerful now than he was then? Mhm. And that one thing in the Epstein files, if they found the woman's dead body and all that [ __ ] it it's only corroborating the fact that he kills people to get rid of his problems. He has fixers do this [ __ ] for him. And again, I'll remind you, there are 3 million files that they are never going to release. Why? Why? They will release them. I They They have said they're not going to. They don't have to. Who's going to enforce it? They are the people that would enforce that, and they're not doing it. They're breaking the [ __ ] law because they are the law. When you say killing off people to get rid of evidence, I don't think of Trump, I think of the Clintons. There are so many people that when he was the governor and all of that in Arkansas and and then moving forward up up the ranks, there were so many people that were killed that they said that they had them whacked. Okay. A list. I can give you the list. Okay. Okay. My question remains, why are they not releasing 3 million Epstein files? They need to. They're not going to. My question is, why are they not? They are protecting someone. Who? Everybody that's in those 3 million files. I have no no idea. >> cuz a lot of names have already come out. Like I said, there's investigations in at least 13 different places now into this. There's a dozen or so people have quit their jobs, retreated from public life. Right. So, they are not protecting everybody. Clearly, there's a lot of people going down for this right now. They're not protecting everyone. Who are they protecting? In 3 million, there's got to be a lot of people in there. I know you're I know you're trying to pull it out but it's Trump. >> No. Or maybe the 3 million that they did dump, Trump's name is mentioned more than anybody. It stands to reason that would be the same in the other 3 million files, and maybe those 3 million just have way worse [ __ ] in them, and that's why they're not releasing >> I don't want you to keep pushing on me and pressuring me to to think that I am protecting Trump. You are. No, I'm not. I would not protect him if he did the stuff that that a pedophile does with little kids. I would not protect him. Well, speaking of that stuff, I'm going to play my first clip. Here we go. Okay. >> I just found an Epstein file that describes in detail what is shown in a picture that's been redacted. Remember, as you read this, Republicans are actively saying this entire case is over and justice has been served. But the people who did this to an innocent human being are still not in prison. The image is at the top, as you can tell, completely blacked out, and you'll see why. But I'll include the file number so you can check this out yourself. It says the photo shows a girl, her face visible, who looks like a child with medium-length dark hair. Several white men are holding the girl's legs open. Her parts are visible and gashed with blood coming out. In the photo's foreground, another man with a white shirt appears to be inserting something into her. A round imprinted symbol of some kind, maybe a brand, is visible on the girl's leg in the underside of her left thigh. Additionally, the girl's mouth looks bloody, and her tongue is extended. There's a bruise mark under her left eye, as you can tell, absolutely terrible. Additionally, this paragraph right here is pretty disturbing as well. It talks about a time when a French modeling agency sent Epstein 12-year-old triplets. It also talks about a phone message slip referring to lessons from two 8-year-olds, and how Epstein thought the younger the girls, the better. But all those people in that picture who were doing unspeakable things to an innocent human being are living a lavish life not in prison right now. And while this is happening, Republicans want us to think this whole case is over and justice has been served. Okay. So, that's what's in the Epstein files. That's one of the files. >> number? I was going to put my phone up and take a picture but then you would have got mad at me. You can send that to me later. >> at you? I'll email it to you. You can look at the file. I'll email you this video later. >> That just That was sick. Just sick. >> Correct. And now here's Trump's attitude about the Epstein files. Okay. I think it's really time for the country to get on to something else really. And now that nothing came out about me other than it was a conspiracy against me literally by Epstein and other people. But I think it's time now for the country to maybe get on to something else. You couldn't hear that? No. It was really low. But what did he say? He said he thinks it's time for the country to move on to something else. That we should stop talking about the Epstein files. Okay. >> Yeah, it's not. Correct. It's not. You just heard what was in the Epstein files. None of the people in that photograph committing that horrific act are being investigated. None of the people in that photo are even being called out by name. They are being protected in the file. They are redacted. Can we see their faces in that photo? No. The whole photo is blocked out. So, and rightfully so. Obviously there's some [ __ ] in that photo that should never be seen by anyone. But there are people in the photo That's That's what I mean. We need We need to see those people. >> Right. And we're not. And now Donald Trump is going around saying stop talking about the Epstein files. That's over. Yeah, that's right. >> Why is he saying that? It's not right. Why doesn't Donald Trump want us to continue to discuss the Epstein files or investigate any of these people that are being protected? Why? I've always felt someone above him is putting pressure on him to say don't or we're going to kill you. Okay. >> That's what I've felt for a while. Okay. If you feel that then should he still be the president? Yes. Why? If he's completely compromised? Not all the way. Clearly all the way. He's telling us to not investigate one of the most horrific crimes that has happened in modern American history. Right. He's saying, "Don't look at that anymore. Don't think about it. Yeah. Move on. Let's talk about something else." Whether it's because he's in the Epstein files, which is what I believe likely in a very credible way, and he was part of the Maybe he's even in that photo. We don't know because they've redacted it. They're protecting whoever is in the photo. Or maybe you're right. Maybe there is some higher power that is controlling him so completely, he is able >> do? What do we do to open these up and let us see everything? What do we do, Chad? What would you and I be able to do to make this different? You and I can't do anything but talk about it. But now you're getting you're you're kind of turning a corner here because I think you're accepting that Trump is a part of the problem here in one way or another, whether you believe he >> And Pam Bondi Pam Bondi is Trump. He put her in that position so he could control her. You What what Why do you think she would go in front of Congress and lie and deflect and not answer any of their questions and redact Donald Trump's name from the Epstein files? Why would she do that? Right. Someone's telling her to do that. >> Trump is telling her to do that. Someone is. Who else would it be? Maybe somebody above Trump. Okay. So, you're you're at least accepting that what Trump and Pam Bondi are doing is illegal, not right, and they are protecting people in the Epstein files. You accept that, right? >> Yes, I do. Okay. >> They need to open every last page in there with all the correct names. >> I know. We keep saying that. They're not doing that, though. They need to, of course. They're not doing it. The next question becomes, we're we're getting somewhere here. You are reaching a step where you're accepting that Trump is trying to cover up the Epstein files. Right? Maybe. He's not letting them all get released. >> Correct. And he's telling us to move on. Stop talking about it. Right. >> He's trying to cover it up. So, now we get to this next part of why is he trying to cover it up? And there are two options here. One is you have concocted this idea that there is some shadow government or some other government or who who knows what that is in control of Donald Trump. Who do you think that would be? I don't know. I've spoke about that before. Israel, maybe? In regard to Charlie Kirk, yeah. Right. Okay. Do you think that's more likely or do you think it's more likely that it's because Donald Trump is in the files, he is trying to cover his own tracks when we have very credible evidence that Donald Trump has had a long friendship with Jeffrey Epstein, knew he was trafficking children far before he was ever convicted of it, indicted, charged, and now is in the position to remove all of that information or to hide it? Doesn't that seem more likely that that's what's happening than a a perceived higher power than Donald Trump pulling his strings, pulling Pam Bondi's strings, and to what end? To protect who? >> of I kind of like the the higher up thing better than what you're saying. >> Right. Because it takes blame away from Donald Trump, but it doesn't make sense because what if that is true? >> None of it is right. >> to me for a minute. Listen to me. If that is true, if there is this higher power that can control Donald Trump and Pam Bondi and all of this, why would the Epstein files ever have come out in the first place if there is an all-powerful entity, whatever that is, you think it's Israel maybe or billionaires or whatever, some cabal? If they are that powerful, why would Trump ever have released the Epstein files in the first place? He signed that into law. Why would he ever have done that? Yeah, I do not know that. I also believed, think about this, I also believed these files don't tell me the garbage you're going to tell me. Biden had these long ago. And okay, so you're saying Biden couldn't release them. But there were Democrats that were under Biden, whistleblower blowers, whatever you call them, they could have released them. They could have let them out there. >> about leaking [ __ ] but you yourself get pissed at people who leak stuff all the time. You're mad at whoever leaked Donald Trump's tax returns. Which is like, who gives a [ __ ] >> Biden could have done that. He hated Trump that bad, he should have done it. But he didn't. Right, because it was an active investigation and under Biden That's the question I want to ask you. Why didn't the Democrats do that, Chad? Because it was an active investigation. >> Yes. Why didn't they do that to him? Because the people that worked for Biden, that were part of that administration, had loyalty to the system in place, had loyalty to the pillars of government, had loyalty to the idea that the executive branch does not put pressure on or in any way influence the independent operation of the Department of Justice. They can handle the investigation however they see fit and that the Department of Justice, law enforcement, is a separate piece of government that should not be interfered with by the president. That now is [ __ ] out the window, clearly. Trump has blasted it. He, like I said, he installed loyalists at every tier of the law enforcement system, including the FBI and DOJ. So, it's just a different thing. Also, it was an active investigation. Legally, when an investigation is active, you can't release files and [ __ ] from that investigation to the public. Biden did so many illegal things, taking all the money from China, giving it >> Fine. You you you just you This is another >> me that. This is another thing you do. We're talking about Trump and we're getting to a place where you >> no. You were talking about the Biden administration following everything the way it should be followed by Well, they didn't. They really didn't do that. That does not change at all the fact that Donald Trump's name is mentioned more than anyone else in the Epstein files and that he is covering them up. And and you have this um tendency when we're having conversations and we're you're starting to get somewhere where you're like realizing, "Oh, Trump is doing some weird [ __ ] that I don't agree with." You immediately go, "Well, what about Biden?" That has nothing to do with this. It has nothing You did. >> brought that up because I said, "Why didn't Biden put this out in the open when he had the chance to do it?" And you said, "Because he did the government the way it should be." No, he did did not. You brought up Biden. I didn't. We were talking about Donald Trump and you said, "What about Biden?" Seriously, Chad, I don't understand why Biden didn't release all this [ __ ] It doesn't matter. >> sunk Trump. He never would have been elected and that would have been that. >> I mean, if you really want to get down to it, I think it's because Democrats are terrible at politics, but the the bottom line is you have this tendency when we're zeroing in on on why Trump is doing this to immediately just like eject, "What about Biden? What about Obama?" I did not You did. You brought up Biden. You told me that Biden did everything under the book. I mean, by the book. And But you brought him up. We were talking about Trump and you're like, "Well, why didn't Biden release these files?" You brought him up. Well, that's the truth. He hates Trump so bad. >> That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. So, Biden could um just let these pedophiles lay low and never open the file and he was okay with that, too. That has nothing to do with Trump's involvement in the Epstein files. It has nothing to do with it. Hmm. I I see that a little different, but All right. I have one more clip. This is a clip uh that is going to reveal to you the treatment of children in ICE facilities. Here we go. Okay. In this administration, under your watch, ICE has booked nearly 4,000 children. And 1,000 of them have been held longer than the court-ordered 20-day limit. Recently, ProPublica obtained handwritten letters and drawings from children detained by ICE. These are letters from children describing what it feels like and what it does to them when the government locks them up. This is Ariana. She's 14 years old. Detained for 45 days. "Since I got to this center, all I feel is sadness and mostly depression." This is Mia, 7 years old. "I don't want to be in this place. I want to go to my school." This is Scarlet, 17 years old. "I feel very bored and overwhelmed because I am locked up." This is Gabby, 14 years old. Are you texting? What are you doing? >> and depression of not being able to leave." >> [snorts] >> This is Maria, 9 years old. "Me and Dilly am not happy. Please get me out of here. This is a 12-year-old going to the doctor and the only thing they tell me is drink more water. The water here is what makes people sick. And this one got me, Mr. Lyons, cuz this is a 5-year-old. Louise Annie My son's five. He can't write many words. But he can communicate through drawings like this. This is a picture of Louise Annie's family. And you might be able to see that none of the faces are smiling. Child detention is not required by law. You know that. It's not the only option available. And it's not effective. We know that community-based alternatives can ensure compliance with proceedings without traumatizing these children. Yet you continue to detain and hold children for weeks or months depriving them of school, stability, leaving them afraid, sick, and confused. Okay. So, I have to ask you, what were you looking at on your phone? Some It was not on my phone. It was my paper, what I wanted to say about that. Okay. But you got to watch the videos and you got to listen to what I'm presenting you. >> the videos. I heard every story he said. I thought the children stayed with their parents. Okay. They're not separated from their parents, are they? And they're only Do you think the children were separated from their parents in concentration camps in Nazi Germany? This is not Nazi Germany. This is not what we are talking about. >> Yeah, it is. So, don't compare it. >> Now, why are you comparing it? Why are you comparing it? Why are you comparing it? >> Because it's happening. No. When the parent is taken Uh-huh. >> they have the they have the choice to the child can go with them Mhm. or stay. So, you're okay with this? No, I don't like children in cages. Like what Obama [clears throat] did. >> there have been reports coming out of that same detention center in Dilley, Texas, that the ICE agents are now confiscating and destroying children's letters and drawings because this information has come out. ProPublica did this article with all the stuff in it. And so now the ICE agents are going around and taking their drawings and throwing them away. Yeah, that's terrible. If that is the truth, that's terrible. I don't want any kid to be in a place like that. That's terrible. >> Okay. Well, Donald Trump >> I say yes to that? Right, you shouldn't. But I'm showing you I'm not trying to convince you this is good. I'm trying to show you this is what Trump is doing. This is the point of what he's doing. He right now is trying to get legislation passed that will open more of these detention centers in a bunch of different states around the country that will hold more children. He's doing it. Donald Trump is doing this. These kids are >> to see I'd like to see that story cuz I've never seen that story. I just showed it to you. I Well, you saw that one Dilley. Uh-huh. That camp, but I have never seen these stories, Chad. That's why I'm showing them to you. That's what this whole show is about. That's why I'm showing you these clips. So, you now are aware that there are kids trapped in there being treated like prisoners, drinking water that makes them sick, writing and drawing pictures about the most horrific time in their lives, and it is being done on purpose by Donald Trump. Yes, this is terrible. It is not good. Okay. Now, you know you're going to say I'm deflecting. I'm not. But during Obama >> children were in cages. And did you know that it was like 56 that That was the number I was looking for on my paper when you yelled at me and were rude. >> at you? Did you Yes, you did. When I looked down to get notes, you yelled at me. How am I supposed to get notes? I don't have this all in my brain like you. >> the notes after you watch the video. The most widely documented number with Obama there was 56 people that died while in ICE custody when he put in detention camps. But we don't talk about that. >> Of course you don't talk about >> how the kids were in the cages. We don't talk about how at night they had to be on the floors on cement. That's terrible. >> Yeah, it's terrible. That's right. I hate it. >> It needs to stop. Yeah. I agree. But when you're saying we don't talk about Obama, blah blah blah blah blah, that is done now. Now what's happening is Donald Trump is doing it. And I see it I see it double-sided here that it was okay when he did it and we did >> It was never okay. It was never okay. >> and now it's really bad. I mean, it's bad. Correct. So even if you think Obama started doing this, Trump is continuing it. Right? It's one more thing to put on the list of [ __ ] that you 100% disagree with. And all I'm trying to get at is like how many of those things have to mount up before you kind of realize I don't like Donald Trump. He's doing a lot of stuff that I'm very against. Right. Like I said, I can't keep everything in my brain, but I'm going to start making my list. Okay. >> Check it. Starting a war with Iran. With what? With Iran. That's one thing you don't like. Say it again with what? >> Starting a war with Iran. Yes, I don't like that. >> Okay. Locking kids in cages and giving them drinking water that makes them sick. You don't like that. >> like that. Okay. I don't like that they haven't given us all the files. Protecting Jeffrey Epstein and a couple of all the pedophiles. You don't like that, right? >> They they're not letting it all out. Okay. Sexually assaulting women. I would assume you don't like that. I don't like that. Okay. Those are four pretty big [ __ ] things. Okay. We'll start making my list. >> And I'm not saying like you have to turn into a Democrat. That's not what I'm trying to get you to do here. I'm just trying to get you to see Donald Trump is a bad person doing bad things all of it for self-enrichment. It's okay to not support him. And you then also don't have to be a Democrat. You can support some other political candidate that's an option, too. You you don't have to blindly follow whoever is the head of the Republican Party. And you certainly don't have to blindly follow Donald Trump. It's okay to check out of that. There's so much stuff right now that is wrong not only in the United States but all over the world that I can't I just can't keep watching it. My brain is I I it's it's making me very sad. I have friend I have friends that have just gotten off social media. I can't even communicate with them anymore because they're off social media for a while. They just can't watch it anymore. Yeah. The only reason I'm here with you is because I made you a promise. What? I won't let you down. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. >> won't quit the podcast. Yeah. I know you had another one where somebody quit. I won't do that to you. I will not do that to you. Okay. I want you to realize that all these things that are making you sad and that you think are bad in the world, the way to change them is to acknowledge they're bad and then not allow them to happen. As people, as citizens, we do have power in that. Through protest, through voting, assuming that our our elections are still um you know, accurate and real. We do have power in that. And I think ignoring it is like I get it. Everybody has their own mental health to take care of, and sometimes you need a break from it, maybe forever you need a break. I get it. But I do think it's important to to keep an eye on these things, talk about them, and potentially change your mind about who is really responsible for making the bad things happen, and then don't support them. And if you come to a conclusion that Donald Trump is that person, it's okay to just stop supporting him. You That doesn't mean you've got to be a fan of AOC and vote blue. That is not what that means. It just means That will never happen. That's fine. I guarantee you that ain't ever going to happen. I'm not It doesn't have to. And I I am not even asking that of you. I know that would never happen. But I do think there is a piece of you that is starting to wake up to the idea that Donald Trump is the one who's causing all this harm, and it's okay to stop supporting him. There are other Republicans that are not like that, and who have very many like same policies that you like. Um you know, keeping the border safe, putting more money in defense, supporting the military, whatever. There are other Republicans who support those ideas, but are not in the Epstein files more than anybody else, are not trying to divert our attention from the biggest criminal conspiracy in American history. >> I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. Okay. And RIP, we forgot to say RIP Jesse Jackson. I think he died today. Yeah. >> and Robert Duvall both. Robert Duvall. Yeah, it's been a big week. We'll probably talk about that on Sunday, but thank you for doing this with me, Mom. I do love you. Thank you for Love you, too. >> having some kind of an open mind on this stuff. Thank you all for joining us for this midweek episode. We'll be back Sunday to discuss everything that's going on this week, which is already a doozy. It seems like every week is. Um and hopefully this Iran stuff doesn't um escalate too much in the next few days, but unfortunately probably will. Okay. All right. >> Yeah. Bye.