Will a softer side of Bob emerge?

Welcome to a very special episode of the necessary conversation. We've been talking for a long time on this program about possibly having a therapist to come here and talk to our family. Today we have a very special guest with us. This is Karen. Hello Karen. >> You may know Karen from Happy Mom and Grandma on Tik Tok and Instagram where she uh is doing fantastic work. I'm a huge fan by going into the Trump email chains for fundraisers and his packs and stuff and reading what Trump uh supporters are actually being sent in their emails to try and get money. Now, I have to say up top, we're not going to talk about any political issues that have happened this week. Obviously, everything going on with Renee Good in Minnesota. We're going to be covering that on Sunday. Horrific news. But today is all about talking to Karen. And I have some disclaimers to say about this. This episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Does not constitute mental health treatment. Karen is a licensed marriage and family therapist here today in an educational and conversational role, not as anybody's therapist. She won't be providing therapy, diagnosis, or individualized mental health advice as she is not licensed in the states that we all live in. And Karen's going to be speaking generally about family dynamics, communication, and what research and clinical experience show about political conflict in families. With that said, Karen, the floor is yours. >> Well, I just want to start by saying thank you guys so much for letting me come on. This is um I'm hoping this can be helpful for all of us. I am dealing with so many families about political conflict and roles and boundaries and values. And my joke during COVID was, "Hey, I'd never took the class on how to help people during a global pandemic." I make the same joke now that I didn't take the class in college about how helping people navigate political differences, value differences, and everything that's happening. Um, I don't often get a chance to talk with both sides. And so I'm really appreciative that I get a chance to hear from both sides. And um I guess um my my question to you guys to start off is um what are you hoping to get out of this? What are the challenges that you're facing relationally right now? Um and it's always kind of tricky to start with family because I'm like I want to know the history. I want to know when you met, how you guys met, the family. >> Start if you have those questions, we're happy to answer them. >> I So, I want to do those, but I also want to overlay that with what's happening right now. Like, are there are there like little fires that need to be put out? Like, is it communication that's a problem or conflict that's a problem? So, um I guess I just want to hear from each of you guys like what's happening right now? What challenges are you facing that maybe we can talk about? Haley, >> it's always me. Um, let's see. Problems, challenges. I mean, most of this stems from politics because politics, you know, is shaping how we see the world at large. So, you know, uh, my parents do not I'd say they're transphobic. I don't know if they're homophobic, but certainly, you know, there's a little gray area there for them. um that's hard to reconcile because you know I have queer friends um family members so h how do I navigate those waters because you can't I can't change their mind they have to do that themselves but it is hurtful when they say [ __ ] you know about that community in particular um and [clears throat] politically like the climate that we live in it's just amplified right now So, you know, there's little things like that. Uh, and we touch on it in the podcast because I think um I think that politics is is 100% like it creates who you are at this point in the world. >> Yeah, it does. >> You know, it's synonymous with who I like the fact that I'm liberal and and my ideologies and all these things like it is synonymous with who I am at this point. So, uh and them as well. So, it's hard because we butt heads on so many issues like life issues. >> What happens when you guys butt heads? >> We do it on the pod mostly. Um I don't I yell, they yell. I don't know. That's how I get it out because >> everybody gets kind of mad. Everybody gets elevated. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, when you feel passionately about something, you're going to pop off. >> Yeah. And then is there ever any like repair afterwards? was like, "Do you guys ever talk about it and say, "Hey, I'm not mad that I didn't handle myself the best." [laughter] >> No, that's >> Do you mean an apology? Yeah. >> Well, I not so much. >> You know, like I yelled at them on the last pod and I called them like [ __ ] idiots and uh I apologized at the end of the pod. >> Um because I don't want to hurt my parents' feelings, but I also don't feel like they hear me. you know there is no validation uh coming from them when I say these things that matter. Um so I don't want to hurt my parents feelings. >> Uh but sometimes you know I get agitated because they're not listening. So then I start screaming. >> Yeah. Which as you've learned doesn't help but >> makes me feel better. >> It makes you feel better. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> I think though that that is kind of the common language of our family and has been for a long time. It's just like yell as loud as you can. I would say one of the big problems is >> at least it feels like coming from your side, mom and dad, you guys don't listen to anything Haley and I say and completely dismiss it instantaneously as we say it and then you issue a Newsmax talking point and just keep kind of repeating that. It feels to me like when we have these conversations, you guys are just literally saying what the TV is telling you to say instead of listening to what Haley and I are saying and trying to have a conversation about it. >> I thought we weren't going to talk politics today. >> That's all I'm done. >> But >> what? >> No, I want to hear. So when Haley was talking, Mom, I was watching your facial expression and you were I think you were reacting to what she was saying. >> How she said what did she say? Hang on a second. Mom, I'm not sure that you have the right microphone or where is the microphone? >> Yeah, your mic is wrong. >> It's right here. >> It's right. >> Yeah, you're not on that mic. >> Okay, let me let me look at the channel quick. >> We have a technical difficulty. >> One moment, please. >> Every due to me. I apologize. I'm so sorry. >> I should have brought tennis. I can juggle. I should have brought tennis balls. >> I can as well. >> Entert Yeah, we could pro provide some entertainment. What should I have it on, Chad? >> It should be on um Audio Technica, whatever. ATR, I think, is probably how it's >> Okay, just a minute. And not in the ART 2100. >> Yes. >> Okay. At least not on that. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Okay. I got the right one. Um she said that we don't listen at all. I was they don't listen to us at all. That's the way I feel. >> The same way. You feel the same way. Okay. >> Politics should never be [snorts] in front of family. Family means everything to me. Family is number one. Politics should not be I mean now it's part of the conversation because Chad has created this podcast for us to be on. When he first me about this three years ago, he goes, "You think you you want to do this? It'd be a lot of fun. People will love you. People will hate you." I said, "Well, I'll give it a try." I had no idea how explosive this would be and that we are sharing this with people that I know they just see us here on the podcast. They don't see us after we leave the podcast. And I try really, really hard with my feelings, with what I say to leave it at the podcast, but it is difficult when we are yelled at by our own children. >> Of course, >> and I step away from it and I have to cool off for a couple days and even think, do I really want to do this again? >> It takes you days to recover. Huh? >> It's taken me a couple days since last Sunday when Haley did a yelling thing at us. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like you're fairly portrayed >> on what? On the podcast? >> No. >> No. No. They don't know me. >> No. Like the way that Chad edits clips and the way that Chad puts out our material. Do you feel like that's really you? >> The things I say, of course. Those are my words, >> right? But you think that the audience does not know who you are? >> No, they don't know who I am. I only have four real friends. Those people know who I am. and they try to stand up >> for me. >> What kind of Yeah, >> sorry. I'm sorry. What kind of feedback are you getting from like the world at large? >> I have cut off mainly all of I I'm on Tik Tok, Instagram, um Facebook, and I have cut off anyone that has reached out to be my friend. It's a no no because I've got death threats. I've got death threats on my husband. They want us six foot under and buried. I'm not gonna play that game with these people I don't know. >> I play games with my family and with my four friends that I know. That's it. >> So to to me, the out those outside people that want to do harm to me, my husband or my family, I'm not going to uh communicate with them. Yeah, I'm so sorry that >> now I have a few nice people that have sent me a few nice comments and in fact I'm friends with two and those are the only two that I will continue to be friends with. >> Have you always had kind of a small group of friends as well? >> I would say yes. I'm I'm very um private. I'm a private person. Yeah. >> Okay. It's very very brave of you to be doing this as a >> but I mean I'm outgoing too. I mean, my friends from high school that are my golden friends, they know me. They know my personality. And that's some of my four that I have left. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> So, Bob, you haven't said a word to me. [laughter] >> Haven't been asked anything. >> How are you feeling about this whole process? Are you Are you >> Are you talking about the the podcast or this particular >> me being here? Are you feeling a little bit defensive with me being here? Are you feeling okay about it? >> No, I don't care. >> He's okay. He just He doesn't >> You're okay. Okay. >> You got You're gonna understand one thing. There's not much going to happen in these podcasts that's going to make me defensive. >> Okay. You're you're a laidback guy. >> What what they what they what they have heard >> just a chill guy >> for the last three years is exactly who I am. >> Okay. Do you feel like you're fairly portrayed on the podcast? >> What? >> Do you feel like you're fairly portrayed on the podcast? >> Sure. >> You%. >> Okay. Okay. Do the do the death threats and the feedback blow hard? >> You don't give a [ __ ] >> Gotcha. >> Doesn't affect me at all. I can turn this off one minute after we quit. >> Okay. All right. You see your wife struggling for some time though, right? >> No, >> no. [laughter] >> She thinks I'm overexaggerated. >> I don't think she's struggling with this at all. >> But she says she is. >> Yeah, but she's not. >> Oh, okay. So, do you two listen to each other or is this like a whole family thing that nobody listens to each other? >> No, I listen to her. She listens to me. We have the same point of view. If you really want to cut through all the ice, >> I mean, we've known each other. >> But when she says when she says sometimes this is hard for her, you think you don't believe that piece of it? >> No. >> Okay. >> We've known each other for 56 years. >> We've been We've been married 50 years. >> I know. We've been married 50, but I knew you six years prior. >> 17. So, >> we've known each other for 56 years. >> Wow. Yeah. >> And you're only clearly 57 or 58. So, >> exactly. [laughter] I want to stay there forever. I'll stay at 50 forever. >> It's a good decade. >> Kind of like Chad's going to stay at 49 forever and Haley was 49. >> 459. >> 20 29. >> I'm still 29. You know that. >> Um Bob, for you, are there challenges within the family? Are there do you feel there's a distance? Do you miss a closer relationship with your kids or grandkids? >> No, I mean this this whole thing is more political than it is family. And to me, they're not going to change my point of view on anything. >> They're per personally neither one of them's capable of changing my attitude or my >> point of view. >> And do you feel like that's what they're trying to do rather than listen to? Well, I I think in part they are, but more more than that, I think they like this opportunity to get on the iPod or the iPad >> the podcast and and blow and let and and blow, you know, I mean, and to me, the entire left side of this conversation politically is nothing but a bunch of blow hearts. >> We're not talking politics. >> I I understand it. >> Okay. I know, but it it's hard for it not to see because that's literally the the thing that is has got you guys so divided. That's what that's what has taken this family. >> Were you guys close or let's talk about the family history. You guys have known each other 56 years. So, >> we're not going to do the math, but tell me the story of how you met, how you fell in love. >> Go ahead. >> No, [laughter] go ahead. That's not your f I I expect some input from you, Bob. At least some. >> Tell him, you know. >> Well, we met in high school. >> High school. He was a wrestler. I was a cheerleader. >> We met way back. Same hometown. >> You guys have to show pictures of that next time if I Yeah. >> Yeah. And then same college, he went to the Air Force. We had Chadley. Uh we were in love. Let's have a baby. Okay. We had Chad very, very young. Uh, we were very >> Was it love at first sight for you guys? >> What? >> Was it love at first sight? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. >> And then we got married. We We were in love. Let's have a baby. Chad came a year later. We were very lucky. He came a year later. >> Uh, and then Haley what, four and a half years later. But we were dirt poor. Dirt poor when we first started out. >> Um, Bob was in the Air Force and we both he looked at me and said, "We have to get an education. If we don't have an education, we're going nowhere in this life. He We were dirt poor. Both of us went back our last two years of college. Chad was three months old. It was not easy. I'm so glad. >> I think finishing finishing finishing school. >> A young marriage. I mean, you guys are young. Were did you have Were you around your family, your extended family? >> Um, our parents were like what two and a half hours away that time about. >> So, they can't help with the dayto-day with the >> Yeah. No, they were not with the state. Well, for a couple years we did live in our hometown, so we did have our parents pretty close. >> Well, my parents were never close. >> Yeah. >> Didn't you also you were on like tennis scholarship. You're playing tennis through all of that. >> That's the only way that I could get my education paid for is to get on a scholarship. So, I played tennis while Bob would hold Chad on the sidelines. And I'll never forget, we were at a country club and the Kansas State team was playing maybe Witchaw State there. Anyway, KU. Oh, it's KU. >> And Bob was holding Chad with the bottle, sitting at the side. And this man walked by and said, "She never promised you a rose garden, did she?" Because he was taking care of Chad while I was out playing tennis. >> Wow. Bob, were you pretty involved in in parenting when they were little? Little little. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And then what were after you got out of the Air Force, what did you what did you do for work? >> Well, we went back to school and I beca I was an accountant for >> Okay. >> Couple of billionaire oil and gas men and I during the course of my career, I I became a a natural gas trader. >> Oh, okay. >> I made most of my money trading gas. >> Okay. He's one of a few people in the whole United States that can trade natural gas, oil, and weather. He knows how. >> And mom mom became a teacher. Mom was a teacher and a high school tennis coach. >> Yes. Okay. Okay. So, and you guys, so you guys were both athletes. So, were wrestler, tennis player, cheerleader. You guys are Okay. Um, so Chad's the oldest and then you guys had Haley. >> Yes. >> What's the age difference there? >> Five years. born. Yeah. >> Okay. >> She was a Easter baby. April. >> April. What? What day in April? >> 11. >> 11. >> Okay. My daughter was born on the 8th. She was a Easter. She was Easter baby, too. >> Um Okay. And then then what happened? >> Family history. >> When Haley was born, we had more money. Then Bob had a job. We had more money. It was a lot easier with two babies. But then we did move with his job uh Amarilla, Texas, uh back to Flower Mound, Houston, and then up to Topeka. Uh and then where we're at now. So we moved around a little bit with his jobs. >> Yeah. >> Texas. >> Yeah. What were the values that you raised? Like what were the family values? What was important in raising your kids? like work ethic, kindness, compassion, um strength, resilience. What was it that was your family? >> Work. >> It was work. Work ethic. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> You got to be number one. >> I think. Yeah. Work [laughter] ethic through those sports. And we we all know that dad did every sport that you were ever in. Tried to coach everything you were ever in. And it was grueling. I will say that. It was he was like he wanted both of them to be professional athletes and but then I was the one that would take them in the grocery cart when they were little and give them comic books and give them the crayons and give them the art side. So I feel like I did part of that side when Bob did the other side with them. >> Really traditional family roles, right? Where >> would you say? >> And we all love animals. We all think so. Not for me. I mean, like, uh, dad, >> my dad put me on a boys baseball team when I was in like grade school and middle school. >> I was playing with boys >> because you were good. >> Yeah, I was really good at softball and uh he put me in baseball to I guess like amp up my skills. I don't know why, but I was in baseball. >> Did you like that? Did you want to do that? >> Of course. Of course. But, you know, at some point, like adult males will outrun, outthrow, outh hit, you know, the the the guys that were my age. Like, I just couldn't keep up by the time I got to high school. >> I was going to say it works for like up until about when you're younger. Once they hit puberty though, there's like forget about it. >> What was it like growing up with these two as parents? >> And let's talk like elementary. Let's talk about You know, when you were little, like Okay, let's just let's talk about when you were little little um what when you were scared in the middle of the night, who came or did anybody you know whatbody? [laughter] >> I can't remember. >> I don't think that happened to me. Yeah, >> I don't think it happened to me either. I don't think I got scared in the night. >> No. Uh >> when you were sad, when you were scared, when you were >> when you had big feelings as little kids, how did you handle those? >> The the thing I remember most is that bird dying. Do you remember this incident? >> Baby bird. I was just going to say baby bird. >> I I had found some bird when How old was I? Seven maybe. >> No, you I >> I'm not sure Haley was born yet. >> How old were you in first grade? >> That wasn't That was in kindergarten. It was kindergarten. >> It was on Eisenhower. It was in Great Ben, Kansas. >> So, it had to have been kindergarten. How old is that? >> Kindergarten or first grade at the most. >> I think I was like five, six years old. Okay. Right. >> Roughly that age. I found a little bird that was injured or whatever. And we took it inside. [snorts] You guys bought it a cage. We were like hand feeding and stuff and it died. And I remember I was like crushed and crying. And I remember mom consoling me, but I don't remember dad consoling me. I And I don't know. I don't know the actuality of it because the memory is not you know fully formed but I have that is the memory I have you tell me if >> it's time that you experienced what death was and it was with that baby bird and I brought it in and we tried to keep it going but it could not keep going and that was sad but you experienced what death was. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I grew I grew up on a farm where stuff died weekly. >> So that that was no big deal to me. So Bob, your values were work hard, be the best. >> Well, well, you have to remember I was adopted, so you had to be the best. >> How old were you when you were adopted? >> Three months. >> Okay. Was that um So where did that come from? That you have to be the best. >> Well, you feel like you got thrown out with a bath water. You'll find out if you if you go back and do your research. >> Most overachievers or most adopted kids are overachievers. >> Okay. Feel like you have to make up for something. Prove something. >> Well, you have to prove >> prove something. Yeah. >> You always have to prove >> Did you have brothers and sisters in your family? I have one sister who's four years older than me and she was adopted also and we are not biologically related >> and we don't talk to each other. >> Okay. Did you have a good upbringing? Were your adopted parents did >> did you have a good My parents were terrible. >> They were not >> I'm so sorry. >> They were bad. >> His biological parents his mother was very young when she knew that she was pregnant. She decided after speaking with her mother that it would be best to put Bob up for adoption. So she went to the hospital, had him, left the hospital and never came back. And we found all this out because Bob did want to know the records and through the Catholic Social Service I found records and he was left at the hospital is what happened. Yeah. and then went to the Catholic social service with nuns that took care of him for three months. They said he was a happy baby and that they would walk by and pick him up and love on him and then put him back down and walk past. So >> then he was adopted to the family that um he grew up with >> and they were terrible. >> They weren't terrible. >> Well, my mother could have cared less what happened to me. My dad was okay, but he was when they adopted me, he was already in his mid4s. >> Okay. >> So, he was more like a grandpa. >> And how old was your mom? Your >> She was 10 [clears throat] years younger than he was. >> Okay. So, 30s and 40s to have a an infant. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, how were they terrible? >> How are they? What? >> How are they terrible? She >> asked. I'll tell you, Evelyn, I don't even call her grandma. Evelyn, we'd go visit and she would refer to Chad and I as the boy and the girl, >> and she would compare us to her siblings children, you know. >> Don't say >> uh Yeah. >> Yeah. I won't say names, but uh I didn't care for Evelyn. We used to get like the [ __ ] wildest Christmas present. >> Unused M&M bags. >> Yeah. like used pencils, M&M's. I think I love that box of used pencils. That was my gift [clears throat] one year. A cigar box full sto it was just like a bunch of used pencils. I was like, I love pencils. I love >> One of our cousins got used underwear. >> I got a underwear. >> Yeah, man. It was >> not just used underwear. It was a dead woman's underwear. It was a pair of underwear with the name on it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And the name was of someone who had died the year before. Well, you can see um >> there's there's some things going on back then that >> my my life growing up was no rose garden either. >> Yeah. I'm so sorry. >> I wouldn't say he was not beat. He was I mean they spanked him. Everybody spanked back then. >> I thought there were stories of getting beat with a coat hanger. >> Yeah, mom did. >> Well, she did. >> Yeah. I'd hide under the bed. >> Okay. I'm sorry. >> She tried to get me with that coat hanger. >> I'm sorry. Yeah. Wow. So, >> wow. >> There's a lot in >> I know those stories, you know, you know, I know those stories are probably very much the norm for that generation. >> Mother, she had sibling um brothers and sisters that had lots of children. One sister had how many? >> Eight. >> Eight. >> And his mother had a couple miscarriages. And so she just felt like she needed a child, too. Now, this is I'll tell this story real quick and wild. My mother lived in the same hometown as, you know, Bob's mother. They lived across the alley from each other. One day, my mother went out to take the trash out and she saw Bob's mother across the alley, said, "Hey." And Bob's mother had a little blue ba blanket and my mom went over there and said, "What's that?" And she goes, "We just adopted him. Isn't he beautiful?" And my mom said, "Oh my god, his eyes are gorgeous. They're dark brown." Then Evelyn said, "But if we don't like him, we can give him back." >> Oh. >> And that's a true story. From my mother's lips to me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it sounds like you all have experienced that. She's a really nasty woman. When did you cut off contact with your parents? >> Who? Me? >> Yeah. Bob. I never cut off contact with him. I just didn't do a lot of the stuff they wanted. My My mother wanted me to be a priest. >> He was with his mother. [laughter] He He went to his mother's deathbed two days or three days before she died in the hospital. >> He went to the hospital to see his mother. His sister said come. He had reservation about it, but he did. So he did see his mother toward the end. She was actually more pleasant like toward the end. >> Yeah, a lot of people Well, it can go either way [laughter] actually. It can go either way. Okay. So, when you had kids, Bob, were you determined to not repeat those same >> No. >> ways. Did you think about [laughter] it? >> No. I I was determined to make them the best they could be. >> Make them the best they could be. >> Yeah. machines. >> Did you um So, you didn't feel loved as a child? >> They all know. [laughter] >> No. I'm so sorry that I mean that's really >> that's really sad. >> And and to this he still talks about being left being left on the in the hospital. It's really sad. It is >> left on the pallet. >> Left on the pallet. He calls it. And also, I mean, we can Oh gosh, we'll probably need you next week. He had a dog named Coco. I've seen the pictures of Coco. Beautiful little pup. His parents lived on a farm. His dad couldn't quite make enough money, so they had to move into the city. His mother made him leave that dog on the farm. To this day, we talk about Coco. It's just very saddening. >> Unbelievable cruelty, though. >> Yeah. Yep. I mean, there's, you know, there's neglect and like not really caring what happens. And then there's being actionable about wanting to cause harm, >> right? >> And sounds like she fell into that second category of wanting to be cruel and cause harm, >> right? A little puppy wouldn't let him have it. Yep. >> Okay. So do you feel safe in the Have you So the the way that in infants internalize, you know, nobody comes to me when I cry. You know, there's kind of an internalization of like the world is not a safe place. Like if I need something, I'm the only one that I can rely on. >> You asking me that? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I'm I can count on Mary Lou. >> How long did it take? that >> she's the only one. Yeah. You've been together 56 years. Did it take you a long time to really fully trust her? >> No. >> You felt that with her right away? That's really special. Yeah. That's really special. >> I saved him. >> You did? What was it like for you growing up then, Mary Lou? I mean, right. >> I had a good life. My parents were alcoholics codependent and I knew that >> probably since >> uh you know young growing up like maybe into elementary school, junior high, but they weren't mean. They were not mean drunks. They I don't know how else to say it, but they were codependent and they were alcoholics. >> And I tried them to get help several times. My grandmother did and they just wouldn't give it up. It's a disease. It really did say at the end, "Mom and dad, if you want to see Chad and Haley, please quit drinking. I don't feel safe bringing them over here all the time." And they just would they would give it up. They chose >> they chose drinking over our family. And it makes me sad because they they missed out on a lot of good things with Chad and Haley. A lot. And Chad and Haley's kids, too. >> Yeah. >> But I was with them at the very end. Of course, I was. They're my parents. That's what we do. I loved him. >> So family loyalty is something that sounds like a strong family value to you too where Bob your your parents were overtly cruel to you yet you still maintained at least you know some contact you didn't cut them off and Mary Lou your parents even though you know they were alcoholics and you didn't feel safe leaving your children around them and they missed out on so much of the life you still felt a loyalty to them that they're your parents, right? So, family loyalty, I would say, is another strong family value. >> Yes. >> Is that fair? >> Yes. >> Right. Okay. So, you guys raised Haley to be a really strong independent woman, right? She can go up against the boys. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Right. And she can hold her own against the boys. Like, >> still does probably. >> Right. [clears throat] What's it like having her? How did you guys raise kids that think the way that they do when you think the way that you do? Like how how did that happen? >> They didn't think that way till they moved away. >> Yeah, that's what I don't understand. >> Dumbo went to California and never came [laughter] back. >> And Haley spent four years in wonderful Colorado turning wolf. [laughter] >> So he thinks it's environmental, you know, that where they went to live changed them. Um, I really don't know. I I ask that every day. How did they turn out like this in the end? You know, why are their values so different in politics? It's it's politics. I mean, in life, >> no, I think it's you just taught us, I think, to be independent thinkers. Like, we were never force-fed religion. Like, we grew up grew up Catholic, but, you know, nothing was forced down our throats, >> right? Uh, and so I was never indoctrinated in any capacity. I was always allowed to kind of be myself and think freely. And I think in that, you know, you read books and you [ __ ] get out in the world and you realize, you know, certain things about what's going on in life and you just form your own opinions. And we were allowed that privilege, I think, because a lot of parents, you know, they try their hardest to indoctrinate their children. you will believe what I believe and you will do this and you know in a lot of ways like we were ball players you know and that was beat into us and like the work ethic and that that kind of [ __ ] but in terms of like who we were who we wanted to be I never felt restricted >> you know I don't know I just never did >> is it true that you were more aligned with your parents beliefs until until you left for did you leave for college when did you leave the Yeah, I left for college uh like 17. Um, no, I mean I I've never been a racist. I've never, >> you know, experienced any kind of homophobia. I had gay friends in high school. I >> I don't think I aligned with any of that [ __ ] And politically, as a kid and a teenager, I didn't give two shits about politics. Who [ __ ] cares? >> Yes. Um, it wasn't until I was an adult and had my own children that I really started to pay attention to, you know, like how the government was forming this [ __ ] corrupt world that we live in. Uh, as a kid, no, I didn't even pay attention to it. >> I'll be honest, the friction maybe that was within our family starting >> it it was with politics. I remember how dad exploded on Chad one time. Remember in Houston? >> Yeah. But it's that was point I think >> I would say like there's a bigger thing happening too though and it's about like the nature of in my opinion um maybe you want to talk like the American populace or the world changing is a part of this too like when I grew up in the 80s if you were watching a comedy movie made by a giant studio and it had a black person in it the n-word would be all over that movie every Eddie Murphy movie that's what I grew up watching you know what I Yeah, >> it was like the studios were making that movie, those movies, those TV shows that were overtly racist, overtly misogynistic. Up until what was it? 2010, Robert Downey Jr. was nominated for an Academy Award for playing a character entirely in blackface. That was 2010, you know. >> Yeah. So, I think >> I remember the I remember the scandal when the first gay kiss >> Yeah. >> Right. was on MTV. >> Yeah. >> Is that what we're talking about in real world? Pedro Zamora. Yeah. That's a historic moment. And that was uh 1997 I want to say. >> So what you're trying to say is things have changed but we're changing. >> Yeah. You're reluctant to adapt to the world at large. Like things are not >> these things would be unthinkable today. >> The way we look at it too, we maybe have 10 good years left. Maybe we we ain't adapting. [laughter] I don't think you know. But why? Like if that would just make you chill the [ __ ] out and calm down and not >> like not hating these things. >> I don't hate things. I'm happy. >> I think you and Chad are wonderful. I raised you great, the best I could. I think you're beautiful, wonderful, >> happy people. But I don't understand >> a little ignorant. >> I don't understand how you believe one thing and we believe another. I've always I always said up until about last year, if I felt you were taking a wrong step that might harm you or not be right, I would always talk to you about it until I was six foot under. I can't do that anymore. I'm too exhausted. I can't do it anymore. You know, I'm letting you fly. I'm letting you fly and do your thing now. >> Yeah. >> But I don't want you to get in trouble because Haley with politics is very close on the edge. And I'm very afraid for you, Hay. >> But you know, the argument is that you're directing that fear toward the wrong thing. The fear is the government that is putting me in that. >> Well, that's your point of view. >> We can't talk politics today. >> That's your point of view. That's not my point of view at all. >> Okay. If >> it wasn't for the current government, we'd be in a world of [ __ ] >> Okay. >> But are you guys you guys are worried about Haley from kind of a safety perspective? >> Yes. >> Yeah, you are. You are too, Bob. Yeah. >> Her business, her business is very left and very and that >> very woke. >> Very woke in what she posts and what she says and in regard to ICE and everything. And now with ICE, I'm very scared for her. I really am. She has told me that if she saw someone in trouble, she would go help that person with ICE. Well, we know what happened this last week. It's not good. I'm afraid for you, Haley. Again, the fear is directed in the wrong [ __ ] place. >> Okay. >> So, I just want to circle back, Chad. >> What was So, you growing up and living in the household with your folks, >> you know, your mom and dad are saying that you guys kind of all had similar beliefs until you left college and then you changed. Did So, you left when you were 18 or so for college. Is that >> Exactly. Come to Los Angeles and I've stayed here ever since. >> Yeah. Was it true that you all kind of shared the similar beliefs until you left? >> No. And that's kind of what I was getting at with those movies. I think it might have seemed like that to you, Mom and Dad, because the world was more permissive of those things as well and and even promoted them as comedy or whatever, as entertainment, you know, casual racism and misogyny and all of that. Um, >> I don't like as a kid, you don't know any difference if that's what the world is putting in front of you as entertainment. I mean, I'm like a huge cophile. Always have been as a kid. just watch tons and tons of TV and movies and all that [ __ ] >> Um, you know, you don't know any different. And I think when Obama became president, that like dumped gasoline on whatever differences were between my sister and I and our parents because it was right there. Now you have a black president. Uh, and so much changed in America. I think for the better. What >> semil black >> that hates America. >> All right. Um, I'm just saying I think that that was like a a massively good thing for America because it put all that [ __ ] kind of out in the open and a lot of things changed in terms of what our society was willing to tolerate. >> Um, >> I don't think I I ever like shared the opinions of my parents. Like my dad was in the Air Force. At no point was I ever like I might go into the military. To me that was so far beyond the scope of anything that I would ever think >> because of what you saw within your dad that you were averse to military or >> no I think it was because I from a very young age I was like uh the things that interested me were like creative pursuits writing art things of that nature which is >> I mean I don't want to go into my own personal philosophies about the fundamental nature of abstract thought and how it controls all of us but I do think government is diametrically opposed to artistic basic freedom. Government seeks to uh curtail your freedom of speech. You can't say this, you can't say that, you can't do I mean that's why we have all these amendments and laws and whatever. Art is the exact opposite. It's like I need to express all my ideas in whatever way I see fit. And so I always align more uh I think toward a kind of an artist identity than I have aligned with anything else. >> But you were pushed to be an athlete. Do you feel like your artistic side was >> encouraged or welcomed or accepted by your folks growing up? >> Not not as much as the athletic side, but sure. Yeah. I remember them getting me in high school some art lessons with a comic book artist, which was totally cool, and they would give me, you know, supplies and stuff like that. But I also think they didn't My dad's like entire identity, Dad. Tell me if I'm wrong, but your entire identity as a kid was basically based on sports. You played how many in high school? Four or five. be lettered in four or five sports. >> That's insane. So, that's your entire identity and it's kind of I think how you learned to uh interact with the world or like where you found value was in achieving these uh kind of like athletic successes. And so, I think just trying to be a good parent and we've talked about this on the show, you guys were young, like you said, you both come from these environments that did not give you good models of how to parent. And so all you really knew in your own life that gave you some kind of sense of value was sports and you just injected that into me and Haley [laughter] at a level that was like unheard of. And unfortunately our whole family is uh under six feet tall and you know [laughter] has some thickness in certain body parts and it's like that ain't going to ever be a pro alete and I think there was just you know you tried as hard as you could but we just didn't have it. that [laughter] >> you told me once, Chad, though, that competitiveness that your dad instilled in you, >> Yeah. >> that that made you the person you are, too. >> Oh, of course. Because there's a a certain psychological discipline that I think applies to anything you want to do in life. I there's a um there's a a viral video of The Rock talking to I forget they bring him in to talk to like motivational speaking for some NFL team and he's talking to all these incoming NFL players and he talks about like no matter how much money he makes or how much success every day he wakes up he puts his back against the wall and he basically pretends like if I don't succeed at something today my whole family gets killed you know some some version of that and that's that's like what drives him you know [laughter] >> so I think like the the kind of crazy work ethic and the discipline that you tried to put in us for in my case baseball and Haley's case softball. I have translated that like I still have that thing in my head that's just like >> yes >> I'm gonna outwork everybody and and because I work in a subjective field entertainment it's like I know at face value it doesn't matter how good my [ __ ] is bad things get made and sold all the time the quality is irrelevant it's it literally is the work ethic that's how you achieve success and luck sometimes will will play a part in Hollywood but uh it's primarily about are you willing to outwork work your competition. >> Yeah. Same for me. It's how I own a successful bakery. Like one in 10 food establishments makes it, you know, and we're thriving. >> And it's because there the answer there is no like we're done, I quit. That doesn't exist, you know. So I think I think that will always follow us. It was how I was a parent with my kids. Like I'm so methodical. Like everything that I do, it's got to be like the best. And so diaper bag was never missing [ __ ] You know, we go on trips. I got everything. Like everything that I do, >> I do with everything I've got. >> That's a lot of pressure. >> I don't think so. I really don't. >> You're just used to it. This is the way you This is the way life has always been for you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh honest there is no pre the pressure for me is like what am I going to do next because I you know if I have conquered one goal I need another one. I'm very goal oriented. I can't just relax. I can't just sit you know I'm always kind of like chasing something. Um and I don't >> Yeah. I thrive on it >> because I I keep Yeah. I keep [ __ ] moving you know and it help my brain just keeps like working. I always have all these ideas and things that I want to do. So, in essence, I think it literally [ __ ] keeps me alive. >> I remembering bringing up competition. I remember one time we lived in Houston, so you guys were how old? Uh Hel had the grandbaby then. Y'all came back. >> We didn't know what to do. We were like, "What should we do as a family?" We go out in the front yard and dad, I think, said, "Let's do a race out in the street and we'll all run backwards to see who will win." Do you remember that, Chad? Haley, >> I don't >> We race backwards in the middle of the street. Your dad, >> but I remember as children when we lived, this was in um Amarillo. >> Mom, you going to call? >> She's got to go get her phone. >> Okay, [laughter] >> it's ringing and making noise. It's bugging. >> All right. I was just gonna say I remember when we lived in Amarillo, >> the way that house was arranged, it was kind of like there was one long hallway that all the bedrooms went off of and it it led out into that kind of secondary living room area. And dad, you would in that living room area number one, you would get on your knees and put on boxing gloves and make me box you. Do you remember this? >> Yeah, >> we still have the gloves. Yes. >> Then you would have a start in Haley's bedroom, which was at the end of that hallway, and sprint as fast as we could and you would time us with a stopwatch. This was like our nightly family routine. >> By the time we moved to Carolton, throw some sit-ups into that every night. I was doing sit-ups and push-ups like in elementary every [laughter] night. >> Yeah, I had >> Sounds fun. It sounds like a fun [laughter] It sounds like a fun household in a lot of ways. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Or was it fun? No. >> There was some of it that was fun, but there was some of it that was absurd. I remember in in junior high in high school, >> we lived in Texas. During the summers, it gets very hot. >> Dad, you would force me to go into the garage and swing a baseball bat a hundred times before being allowed to come back into the home. You remember this? [snorts] >> No, I don't remember that either. [laughter] >> WHAT THE HELL? YOU DON'T REMEMBER THAT? Do you swing your baseball bat that you'd ask me that every day? You [ __ ] remember this. You're being >> I took you to I take you to the batting cages every day. You made me go in that [ __ ] garage every day. >> Oh my god. Unreal. You remember it, Mom? >> Did that feel like punishment, Chad? >> No. It just felt like absurdity. Something that I learned very early on. >> Why am I doing this? >> Yeah. >> Let me ask you a question. Did you do it or did you just like pass time? >> I I would just go out in the garage and sit there and look at baseball cards. Um I >> defiance there too. >> I mean it really for me it was about like I understood the things that interested me. I liked them because I liked them. And I think, Dad, one thing with baseball with me that you never got was your motivation was like fear and aggression. If you do bad, I'm going to kick the [ __ ] out of you. >> It should have been the opposite. It should have been like, "Oh god, baseball's so fun. Look at Would you make a good hit or make a good play or whatever, how much fun is that?" If you would have gone that path, who the [ __ ] knows what would have happened? But because you came at it from this like hostile, aggressive viewpoint, I I turned off immediately and I was like, I'll do this until I don't have to anymore. >> Okay. >> How does that hit you, Bob? Does that feel like criticism? Does that feel like he's just telling you, "Hey, you [ __ ] up?" >> No. [laughter] >> I'm not saying you [ __ ] up or anything. You did what you thought. That's why I'm, you know, I'm just I'm I'm watch I'm trying to figure out like how you how it feels for you when he's telling you, "Dad, you should have done this instead of what you did." >> Well, I did what I did. >> You did what I did. >> I should I should have done what I did. >> You should have. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I will say this though from your coaching techniques. I now coach people as well. I coach players for the sport of reality television to infiltrate the Bachelor and stuff like that. Some I do remember every once in a while I'll be talking to somebody about like okay if you get in this situation like here's how you get out of it or whatever >> and I'll sometimes have weird little flashbacks to moments that you were like trying to teach me baseball [ __ ] about how to hit a ball or keep your eye on the ball or whatever and sometimes I'm like actually how he kind of tried to teach me that might work here and I'll I'll at least use like the philosophical mechanism that you tried to use in that any given situation. Uh, and sometimes I I use those memories [laughter] as like, don't do that. Don't try to teach somebody like this because that [ __ ] didn't work. Uh, but yeah, your coaching it imprinted on me for good or for bad. And I do use components of it in what I do now. >> You learned that in the military, I would guess. Bob, >> what? >> That sort of motivational technique of I will kick your ass if you don't do this well enough. >> Not really. Where'd you learn it? >> From myself. >> From yourself. >> That's That's what you >> growing up the way I did. I had to be number one at everything I did and I'd work until I get there. Had nothing to do with the military. >> Well, you did. >> So, so that was you as a child. >> Yes. >> Trying to prove yourself. And and the way that you inspired yourself as a child was that if I'm not the best, like bad things will happen. I won't have a family. I What? Like >> Well, no. I think if I wasn't the best, then uh my biological mother wins. >> Oh, I see. Okay. So, you were in competition for I have a right to exist on this earth. >> Pretty much. Yeah. >> Damn. >> [ __ ] >> And we did find out, I can put this little bit in there. He was a senior in high school. So, I was a sophomore. We talked to his mother one day. I was there. And Bob asked her, "Where is my real mother?" Uh, where where was my real mother? Do you know about her? And his adoptive mother said, "She died in a car wreck. >> She was an Indian of Indian descent. She died in a car wreck. She's no longer here. So don't ask. >> You mean Native American? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Native American. >> One of those. >> And she played the violin and was making all this stuff up. That was a big fat lie. >> Because we later found out in life more about her. We talked to her one time on the phone. That was a big fat lie who she was. And his adopted mother was just telling him lies up to the point where he was a senior in high school. That broke my heart. That is really really heartbreaking. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I can't imagine growing up in that household where you literally feel like you don't have a right to exist. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just adopted him because the sisters did, right? >> Just to have like a pet. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I mean, I Are you proud of how you've survived that, Bob? >> Oh, there ain't any pride pride in it. It's just the way it was. >> He did We did good. >> I didn't have any choice. >> He did good for >> Are you proud of him, Mary Lou? >> I love him and I'm so proud. Yeah. >> Proud of him. Yeah. It's heartbreaking seeing where he came from, isn't it? >> Yeah. He gave us a very good life. All of us, the kids, all of us. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'd say that's a lesson in resilience, you know. >> Yeah. That's a I mean that's a very strong sense of survival and like self-identity. Like my literal mother doesn't think I have a right to be here. >> Right. >> [ __ ] her. >> That's right. >> I'm going to prove her wrong. I I have a right to take up space on this earth. I have a right to find my way on this earth. And you went on to have a wife. You're you've got a job that's very unique in the world and that you've been very successful in. You've raised two amazing children. >> Yep. >> You really showed that [ __ ] [laughter] >> Good for you. Good for you. Good for you. And so part of this conversation, Marylu and Bob, though, is, you know, when you ask yourself, how did we raise children that are so that think the way that they think? You know, I have to turn to you and say, it's your own damn fault. You raised them to be independent thinkers. You raised them to to read. And um >> we gave him too much freedom and should have kept them more in a box with us. >> It's an option that [laughter] you could have done. I don't know that it would have been any healthier. >> And now I'm trying to reel them back in and it ain't working. >> Yeah. >> And also I would say they did not raise us to read. That is something we did on our own. I was actually reprimanded for reading. >> No, but to be independent thinkers, right? I remember that we were going to some baseball game, uh, Ranger Stadium. This is when we lived in Dallas. I was junior high, I believe. And I remember I was reading. I probably have that book on this bookshelf somewhere. One of these Star Wars when you read when you were reading, too. I bought you comic books when you were four years old. Put you in the cartic book. >> This is an indelible memory. I remember dad I'm literally reading in the passenger seat as we're driving to the baseball game and he goes, "Quit [ __ ] reading. We're going to watch baseball. [laughter] Like I put that book down and beat. >> Yeah, he hated he hated the book. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Do you remember? Oh, >> they make [ __ ] up all the time. >> HOW WOULD I MAKE THAT UP? WHY WOULD I MAKE IT UP? [laughter] >> That doesn't sound like something you would have said to be fair. To be honest. >> Who me? >> Yeah. >> No, I don't think I would have said quit quit reading it while he was in the car. Now, I might have said it once we got to the game. >> Okay. Maybe you were in the parking lot. Maybe you're in the parking lot. Let's just Yeah. >> Reading in a car. Fine. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Yeah. Well, it's uh it's interesting. Um do you guys So, Haley, you've got kiddos. >> Do what's their relationship like with their grandparents? Uh, for the most part, I think pretty normal. I mean, you know, like we come home for holidays and [ __ ] and in between and I don't know. I think it's pretty normal. They spend a lot of time with my mom. Um, I don't know, just doing [ __ ] going in the backyard, looking at butterflies. It's pretty normal. >> Uh, they hear like some of the political [ __ ] you know, from the podcast and it bothers them as well. I think they really >> raises butterflies. >> Yes. >> I think as they were littleer and I'd have them once a week on spring break and all that, we did a lot of things together. A lot. I hope they remember how much fun we had. >> But as they've gotten older, they're going their own way now. Colleges doing their own things. >> And it's hard. It's hard. I miss them. Do you feel like do you feel like the I guess Maryl and Bob do you guys feel like the relationship with the grandkids has changed as they've >> well they're be adults the way Chad and Haley did. >> Yeah. >> And it's hard. Yeah. >> They're heading towards their parents. >> Which they should, but I just hope they remember we love them. We love them so much. Yeah. >> Family is so important to you. Yeah. It's like the relationship the relationships that you have and the closeness. >> Yeah. >> Do they watch the podcast, Haley? >> Um, so they get clips, you know, on social media. Uh, my son does watch it. >> Like, how old is he? And if I'm asking anything too personal, just tell me to shut up. >> Yeah, he's 21. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. So, has he changed his views towards his grandparents as he's gotten up? I mean, >> I've he I don't think he's changed the way that he sees them or loves them. Uh but it's hard for him to hear some of the [ __ ] that they say. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We see Ro I should we see him more than any of them due to the fact he uh attends school north at Kansas State. They live in Dallas. So he comes through where we live like at least what once a month we saw him. >> Yeah. >> He stops here, gets his pizza. I have it cooked. I have it ready. Gas [laughter] money. He kisses us. Goodbye. See you next time. I give him plants. He goes back the other way. We see him a lot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And there's like there's like a unique thing where so mom's dad, my grandfather on mom's side was a gardener. or had a green thumb would grow [ __ ] Like I remember going back to their house all the time and they'd hand us cucumbers and tomatoes and peppers and [ __ ] to take home. >> Um they had a greenhouse like the smell of that greenhouse is is a smell that like I will never >> forget. Like I walk into a dirt like something that smells like a greenhouse and it just like fills me. >> Same. I get teleported back to it. This happened to me last week. I was just walking going to the grocery store and I had caught like a whiff or something off the dirt. And uh I was immediately back in his greenhouse. >> Yeah. So, so our our grandpa, you know, was this massive green thumb and it was his pride. Like, you know, we'd come home, here you go, pal. He'd hand us all these [ __ ] vegetables and [ __ ] >> Uh passed down to mom. So now mom has like this giant [ __ ] garden in their backyard. Uh a whole bunch of like indigenous stuff. So the butterflies come and now I am seeing that passed down to my son. And so like that Yeah. Like that part of the relationship is really cool to see to know that like generationally these things kind of continue. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's really special. That's special. There's a compound in soil that they found that actually helps um combat depression. >> Right. They tell you to go out and like dig in the garden if you're feeling down. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Yeah, that's really cool. Um, you do you know the um connection between the maternal grandmother and the grandchildren? Do you guys know of that? The epigenetics of that? >> No. >> So when Haley was born, she already had all of the eggs that would eventually become so >> grand. Yeah. while you you were pregnant with Haley while her little infant baby. So, you have such a strong connection with those with those grandb babies because it was while I mean she grew the she grew those eggs that would eventually become the grandchildren while you while she was in your womb. >> I have read that. Yes. Yeah. >> Isn't that fascinating? >> Yes, I've read that. I have a new grandson and it's like but they've actually found too that like with when there's an infant and a an adult comes up to that infant in kind of a startling way, the maternal grandmother is the only one that the infant responds positively towards. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> I'll fill you in later. >> All right. [laughter] >> It's a It's a cool thing. It's a cool thing. So, we've reached an hour and I don't know. Um, yeah. Is that time to kind of wrap up? >> Yeah, you tell me. It is. But yeah, if you have like one final question or something, please feel free. If not, we're good. >> Um, go ahead, Marie. What were you say? >> Thank you. This was fun. >> It wasn't. >> It is fun, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm just getting to know you guys and I think um like I said I'm I'm dealing with so many families but I'm dealing with only one part of them at a time. So it's so lovely to have everybody together. Um and you know if I was doing therapy like my goal for today would have been just kind of like getting to know everybody. um getting an idea of where you came from, kind of like the the the way that you see the world. Um and you know, I think I think you know, this is a this is a really interesting family dynamic. Um and you guys are all so open and willing to continue talking about these very difficult things and somehow managing relationships at the same time. But if there's if there's anything within the relationships um that you guys need to work on, I would say it's nobody feels heard. Nobody feels like I mean you feel like you make a statement and it falls on it falls basically to the ground and all you hear is opposition, >> right? And so it we all we all want to feel heard. We all want our opinions to to be heard and to have a discussion. And discussions aren't really happening. It's just kind of like opinion opinion opinion opinion. You're an [ __ ] No, you're an [ __ ] Okay, [ __ ] you. Right. Um >> pretty much [laughter] >> I can't I mean I know what we're going to be talking about on Sunday. Um, and it's some of the most terrifying news that's happened in in this uh current >> in [ __ ] recent history. >> Yeah. Maybe in our lives. >> Very It's very jarring. Yeah. >> And so I and I already kind of, you know, think I know which side each of us are going to be on and I can't imagine that we're going to change this overnight. But I do think uh thank you for coming to have this conversation with us because I think it's this is a different tone of show than we've ever done before. And at the very least that is like perhaps getting us to think in different ways or or have some kind of different attitude about coming to this show. I don't know. I don't know. >> Well, see, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And >> thank you. >> It's fun. >> It's our pleasure. Um, before we go, please everybody out there, go follow Happy Mom and Grandma on Tik Tok and Instagram if you want to see some very interesting content that is all centered around basically looking at these emails that Trump fundraising campaigns are sending to people. Um, and thank you again, Karen, for joining us. I also want to say to mom and dad, thank you for doing this. I love you both. Haley, I love you, too. Thanks for coming here. I know it was uh you had some other stuff going on this morning. Mhm. >> I love you, Chad. I love you, Haley. Glad your doctor's appointment went well. Love you, Bob. >> I love all of you. [laughter] >> Me, too. Including me. >> Love you. We love you. >> All right. >> We love you. >> Love you, Mom. Love you, Dad. Love you, Chad. Very nice to meet you. Appreciate you coming. >> Come on, Haley. Come on, Haley. >> I don't just throw out the I love you. No, no, I can't. I don't throw them out. In the Bachelor world, we call that a sacred word defense play. That's when uh it looks you should be playing a love level, but you're like, I don't just use that word lightly. And then you can get another round of play before you have to issue the love. >> Do you like like me? At least two likes. >> Yes, of course. Of course. >> That's a love level one. Congratulations. [laughter] >> All right. Thank you everybody for joining us. We are going to be back Sunday to discuss everything that has happened in Minnesota um and everything that is now happening as a result of it. We have what is today? Friday we're recording this. So, we have all day today, all day tomorrow before we record our reactions to that and our conversations about it. Who knows what's going to happen, but stay tuned for that and we will see you Sunday. >> Bye.